Should the Vikings trade Randy Moss?
Well I guess it depends. Can they get anywhere near equal value? Probably not would be the answer.
Let's look at some scenarios proposed so far
Here are Peter King's of CNNSI.com
Raiders-Phillip Buchanon- An above average corner, and a player they need. Plus the 7th overall pick which looking at the Defensive players of value around that time according to Mel Kiper, JR. Pac-Mac Jones, wouldn't need another corner, Dan Cody they seem to have a couple young ends in Udeze and Scott, Derrick Johnson he has a tendency to overrun plays, although they could use a Linebacker, Shawne Merriman- A possibility at this point. This trade though probably doesn't improve their defense to anything better than the middle of the pack. Due to the need to develop linebackers on Defense. They still would lack a true-run stopper in the Middle of the Line, of which they are not many in free agency. I'll ask this question would the Defense win a lot of games, if this trade was made.
Ravens-Adalius Thomas- An above average linebacker, and the 21st pick. Adalius Thomas and 2 firsts in this draft. Doesn't improve the Defense that much.
Redskins-Fred Smoot- Plus the 9th pick-this is basically the same post as Buchanon above so I will not repeat it.
Jets-John Abraham-He would bring an instant pass-rush threat, they could then move Udeze to Left End where he played in College. This is the most attractive offer so far.
Chicago-Hunter Hillenmeyer- a smart , sligtly above average linebacker plus the 4th overall pick.
I have a hard time seeing how any of Peter King's scenarios would improve the team that much.
Pro Football Weeekly's Eric Edholm
Jets-Abraham and a a second
Redskins-Lavar Arrington and a third round pick- this is intresting in that you are mentioning a potential all-pro here, granted one the Redskins didn't miss too much. A sign and trade with Fred Smoot also involved would make this very intresting.
Cardinals-Some combination of Bryant Johnson-Probably a third wideout, and either Darnell Dockett, Bert Berry, or Adrian Wilson. I would say Wilson who is the Cardinals best defensive player and a star Safety would be most attractive, followed by Darnell Dockett who the Vikings passed on to take Donatarrious Thomas, Berry I view as a somewhat younger version of Lance Johnstone, which isn't meant as a insult.
Ravens-Edgerton Hartwell, and Gary Baxter too defensive starters who were quite good with the Ravens. Hartwell could develop into a Pro-Bowl player, and Baxter is the type of polished physical corner that would look good in a Vikings uniform. My only doubt is if there success with the Ravens could translate to a more medicore defense.
Giants-Osi Umenyiora and a draft pick, a player although quite talented might not be enough to get people excited about trading Randy Moss. Although this guy has pro-bowl potential, as soon as next year.
When Moss was healthy this year for 4 1/2 games. So he was a threat in five games.
Let's look at stats from those games.
Daunte Culpepper had a QB rating of over 125- 4 times, and in loss to the Eagles a QB rating of 95, which is better than the 63 he had without Randy Moss at full strength against them. He threw for 18 touchdowns in this span. So over a season at this pace he outdoes Peyton Manning's QB rating record, and throws for 57 touchdowns. After these games he only had a QB rating of over 125 in 3 of the last 14 games. And he was less than 100 seven times. Culpepper had three games with 5 touchdowns with Moss early this season, once Moss got injured, and wasn't full strength he only had two games with 4 touchdowns. They also had three close loses in which the Offense failed to score a second-half touchdown.
Moss-in 5 fully healthy games had 9 touchdowns, I'm not making this number up. He had 392 yards in these games.
Marcus Robinson-5 touchdowns in these games, three the rest of the season.
The Vikings offense averaged 477 yards per game. They had a 4-1 record. Culpepper averaged 333 yards passing per game. Basically the Viking offense was pretty-much under stopable except for mistakes against Philadelphia.
Before Moss
1996-Vikings- 23rd in the League in points scored-12th total offense
1997-Vikings-11th in the League in points scored-8th total offense
After Moss
1998-Vikings- 1st in points scored(An all-time record to be exact)-2nd in total offense
1999-Vikings-5th in points scored-3rd in total offense
2000-Vikings-5th in points scored-5th in total offense
2001-Vikings-24th in points scored-12th in total offense (Side Note-Spurgeon Wynn played most of three games in which they had 16 points.
2002-Vikings-9th in points scored-1st in total offense
2003-Vikings-6th in points scored-1st in total offense
2004- Vikings-6th in points scored-3rd in total offense(Note they would have shattered the team record for total yards, if they continued their pace before Moss' injury.
A few myths being floated around about this trade.
Nate Burleson is ready to be a number one receiver? In the five games without Moss in 4 of them he averaged less than 40 yards a game taking on the opponents second-best corners at time. He had a big game though against Packer corners Ahmad Carroll and Joey Thomas in week 10. But we know of their effectiveness. Although Burleson is developing into a very good receiver, he did not prove enough consistently to say that without the coverage Moss draws he will be a 1300 yard receiver.
Daunte can carry this team without Moss? As I stated ahead with Moss at Full Strength He averaged over 3.5 touchdowns a game, without Moss in the line-up less than 2, and when Moss came back hobbled slightly over 2.
The Defense will be able to win games if Randy Moss is traded? Well I was duped into thinking this after the signing of Antonie Winfield though he is a Pro-Bowl caliber corner, and the players they drafted. Will adding one defender and draft picks improve the Defense to anything more than an average middle of the pack defense, to go with a slightly above average offense, Minnesota you are looking at another 9-7 football team.
So do I think the Vikings should trade Randy Moss.
Answer A. No for what the rumors have coming in return
Answer B. Maybe, if a good enough offer comes our way.
But remember this
1999-Marshall Faulk traded to the Rams for a second
2004-Corey Dillion traded to the Pats for a second
2004- Terrell Owens traded to the Ravens for a second.
These are three skill positions players traded in the prime for way less value than they were worth. Did the 49ers think with a late second they were going to make up for Terrell Owens' loss.? Well, we saw how that worked out. The other two had options in place in Edge James, and Rudi Johnson. But this just goes to show how little big-time skill players can go for.
Let's look at some scenarios proposed so far
Here are Peter King's of CNNSI.com
Raiders-Phillip Buchanon- An above average corner, and a player they need. Plus the 7th overall pick which looking at the Defensive players of value around that time according to Mel Kiper, JR. Pac-Mac Jones, wouldn't need another corner, Dan Cody they seem to have a couple young ends in Udeze and Scott, Derrick Johnson he has a tendency to overrun plays, although they could use a Linebacker, Shawne Merriman- A possibility at this point. This trade though probably doesn't improve their defense to anything better than the middle of the pack. Due to the need to develop linebackers on Defense. They still would lack a true-run stopper in the Middle of the Line, of which they are not many in free agency. I'll ask this question would the Defense win a lot of games, if this trade was made.
Ravens-Adalius Thomas- An above average linebacker, and the 21st pick. Adalius Thomas and 2 firsts in this draft. Doesn't improve the Defense that much.
Redskins-Fred Smoot- Plus the 9th pick-this is basically the same post as Buchanon above so I will not repeat it.
Jets-John Abraham-He would bring an instant pass-rush threat, they could then move Udeze to Left End where he played in College. This is the most attractive offer so far.
Chicago-Hunter Hillenmeyer- a smart , sligtly above average linebacker plus the 4th overall pick.
I have a hard time seeing how any of Peter King's scenarios would improve the team that much.
Pro Football Weeekly's Eric Edholm
Jets-Abraham and a a second
Redskins-Lavar Arrington and a third round pick- this is intresting in that you are mentioning a potential all-pro here, granted one the Redskins didn't miss too much. A sign and trade with Fred Smoot also involved would make this very intresting.
Cardinals-Some combination of Bryant Johnson-Probably a third wideout, and either Darnell Dockett, Bert Berry, or Adrian Wilson. I would say Wilson who is the Cardinals best defensive player and a star Safety would be most attractive, followed by Darnell Dockett who the Vikings passed on to take Donatarrious Thomas, Berry I view as a somewhat younger version of Lance Johnstone, which isn't meant as a insult.
Ravens-Edgerton Hartwell, and Gary Baxter too defensive starters who were quite good with the Ravens. Hartwell could develop into a Pro-Bowl player, and Baxter is the type of polished physical corner that would look good in a Vikings uniform. My only doubt is if there success with the Ravens could translate to a more medicore defense.
Giants-Osi Umenyiora and a draft pick, a player although quite talented might not be enough to get people excited about trading Randy Moss. Although this guy has pro-bowl potential, as soon as next year.
When Moss was healthy this year for 4 1/2 games. So he was a threat in five games.
Let's look at stats from those games.
Daunte Culpepper had a QB rating of over 125- 4 times, and in loss to the Eagles a QB rating of 95, which is better than the 63 he had without Randy Moss at full strength against them. He threw for 18 touchdowns in this span. So over a season at this pace he outdoes Peyton Manning's QB rating record, and throws for 57 touchdowns. After these games he only had a QB rating of over 125 in 3 of the last 14 games. And he was less than 100 seven times. Culpepper had three games with 5 touchdowns with Moss early this season, once Moss got injured, and wasn't full strength he only had two games with 4 touchdowns. They also had three close loses in which the Offense failed to score a second-half touchdown.
Moss-in 5 fully healthy games had 9 touchdowns, I'm not making this number up. He had 392 yards in these games.
Marcus Robinson-5 touchdowns in these games, three the rest of the season.
The Vikings offense averaged 477 yards per game. They had a 4-1 record. Culpepper averaged 333 yards passing per game. Basically the Viking offense was pretty-much under stopable except for mistakes against Philadelphia.
Before Moss
1996-Vikings- 23rd in the League in points scored-12th total offense
1997-Vikings-11th in the League in points scored-8th total offense
After Moss
1998-Vikings- 1st in points scored(An all-time record to be exact)-2nd in total offense
1999-Vikings-5th in points scored-3rd in total offense
2000-Vikings-5th in points scored-5th in total offense
2001-Vikings-24th in points scored-12th in total offense (Side Note-Spurgeon Wynn played most of three games in which they had 16 points.
2002-Vikings-9th in points scored-1st in total offense
2003-Vikings-6th in points scored-1st in total offense
2004- Vikings-6th in points scored-3rd in total offense(Note they would have shattered the team record for total yards, if they continued their pace before Moss' injury.
A few myths being floated around about this trade.
Nate Burleson is ready to be a number one receiver? In the five games without Moss in 4 of them he averaged less than 40 yards a game taking on the opponents second-best corners at time. He had a big game though against Packer corners Ahmad Carroll and Joey Thomas in week 10. But we know of their effectiveness. Although Burleson is developing into a very good receiver, he did not prove enough consistently to say that without the coverage Moss draws he will be a 1300 yard receiver.
Daunte can carry this team without Moss? As I stated ahead with Moss at Full Strength He averaged over 3.5 touchdowns a game, without Moss in the line-up less than 2, and when Moss came back hobbled slightly over 2.
The Defense will be able to win games if Randy Moss is traded? Well I was duped into thinking this after the signing of Antonie Winfield though he is a Pro-Bowl caliber corner, and the players they drafted. Will adding one defender and draft picks improve the Defense to anything more than an average middle of the pack defense, to go with a slightly above average offense, Minnesota you are looking at another 9-7 football team.
So do I think the Vikings should trade Randy Moss.
Answer A. No for what the rumors have coming in return
Answer B. Maybe, if a good enough offer comes our way.
But remember this
1999-Marshall Faulk traded to the Rams for a second
2004-Corey Dillion traded to the Pats for a second
2004- Terrell Owens traded to the Ravens for a second.
These are three skill positions players traded in the prime for way less value than they were worth. Did the 49ers think with a late second they were going to make up for Terrell Owens' loss.? Well, we saw how that worked out. The other two had options in place in Edge James, and Rudi Johnson. But this just goes to show how little big-time skill players can go for.
posted by Stew at 10:59 PM
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